Illegal Immigration
Discuss
Update: Continue discussing
posted by Degolar @ 10:19 PM
11.19.2007
Degolar
A Youth Services Librarian who blogs pseudonymously; A D&D character, a bard, equivalent of librarian in the oral tradition; An idealistically liberal Christian with socialist leanings; An overweight sometimes triathlete; Husband and parent; Hints of Loki, Falstaff, and Pan.
Consort of [Spouse]; Father of Dragons;
Lord of Castle [Degolar], Warden of The Orchard, and Guardian of Fur Kids;
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""In any case, fire burns; that's its nature, and you can't expect to change that. You can use it to cook your meat or to burn down your neighbor's house. And is the fire you use for cooking any different from the one you use for burning? And does that mean you should eat your supper raw?"
Maddy shook her head, still puzzled. "So what you're saying is . . . I shouldn't play with fire," she said at last.
"Of course you should," said One-Eye gently. "But don't be surprised if the fire plays back.""— Joanne Harris
10 Comments:
"Give me your tired, your poor,/your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" just as long as they're wealthy, white-collar workers. That's the official stance, right?
Um, it happens? And a wall isn't likely to stop it? (but it might inspire some hawt graffiti, who knows)
Let as many come over as they like. As long as they are willing to register, pay taxes, and speak the language like the rest of us. I don't even care if they learn the language, if they pay their taxes and don't spend mine on welfare.
We're the melting pot, yeah, but when they get into a car accident with my Dad and drive off....and my Dad has to chase them down and block them in till a police officer shows up.
The the police officer writes a ticket for the II, puts him in handcuffs and takes him to jail...leaving my Dad's insurance to pay for repairs because the guy doesn't have insurance.
If you come in legally, work legally, and pay taxes, I'm all for it.
I think this is my favorite video about it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ
Eliot Spitzer, Governor of New York, proposed a program to allow illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses, Blue, so they could get insurance and be regulated drivers. He was hoping to address your exact situation. Opposition was so strong and immediate, he quickly withdrew the idea.
As far as I can tell, that video is about legal immigration. Illegal immigration is an entirely different debate. People confuse the issue beyond any ability to discuss it rationally. They confuse it with the thought of terrorists, as well.
I also would be very interested in doing some fact checking on his statistics (I did a quick search, but got nothing but rabid, racist, right wing supporters). I'm highly skeptical of his claims and it seems he's offering nothing more than fearmongering/hatemongering in the guise of an educated talk. I can't prove that, but that's how it comes across to me.
And since you offered a link, I'll share one of my own.
Now that I think about it a bit more, I can see some of the ways he is manipulating the data. He compares the growth of the "immigrant" population in red against the "native" population in green. Yet he says that the red area doesn't just include immigrants, but also the children and grandchildren and etc. of the immigrants. Those children, et al, should be counted in the green area because they are no longer immigrants, but born to citizens.
And all we are looking at is the areas of growth. The current population would be a huge green area at the base of his graph, but is never shown. The red is actually very small compared against the entirety of the green and not just the small bit he shows.
It's all about his presentation, which is meant to make his audience feel like we're about to be overrun by rabid foreigners who will take from us everything we hold precious. It's not, however, the truth.
Here's more on Spitzer's plan:
a) It stands to reason that if you don't HAVE a license, you are more willing to do stupid things like speed or drive while drunk or both because it CAN'T BE REVOKED.
b) So call me crazy, but given that there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States, that many of them perform jobs that require driving cars, or god help us, trucks, don't we want them to have them to have been a least briefed on the rules of the road? Especially since increasingly those immigrants are coming from the poorest parts of Central and South America (and Africa and China and so forth and so on) where, if there are any rules, they are, shall we say, elastic?
c) In New York state, as in most others, having a license means you are required to have insurance. Say you are hit (or hit) an illegal immigrant. Which would you prefer, one with insurance or without insurance? Say you are permanently disabled in the process, which would you prefer, the ability to tap two insurance companies or one?
d) Critics see this program as a step to "sanctuary," whatever the hell that means. But what about a step toward documentation? Accountability? Traceability? Who do you think is more likely to seek such a license? Hard-working, law abiding people? Or criminals and lazeabouts?
This immigration policy question is for us as people of faith the "welcoming the stranger" question. How do you treat those who are strangers in your midst? There is no doubt this debate has turned toward fear and anger. There are legitimate issues at stake. The rule of law is important, the system is broken. But the tenor of the debate has gone in an alarming direction. That's why we're here today. The way we talk about people is off course. Fear and anger dominate the conversation, not a civil discussion about the legitimate issues involved. How do we protect the dignity and the lives of the weakest and most marginalized among us? . . .
So this is a conversation that is quickly going bad. I read today that it's the number two issue in the Iowa primary campaign. It will be a presidential election-year issue. So how we talk about undocumented people is a matter of life and dignity. In fact, Hispanics who have been here for four generations are being looked at askance now as if every Hispanic citizen was undocumented. All of a sudden, the country feels very unsafe and unwelcoming to people of Latino descent. This is something going wrong in our body politic. . . .
From Jim Wallis
I think you're getting closer to the meat of the issue in that last comment. Immigration has always been viewed with suspicion in the US (No Irish Need Apply) and the creation of ghettos (Chinatown: once a slum, now a tourist trap!). It has to do with racial and national identity, and the fact that American identity is open for creation on both counts (since none of us were "here first").
I think the best answer to hot-button issues like immigration and etc. is to ask yourself honestly: what if it were me and my family in their place? How would I want others to treat me? What would I need to become successful and contribute to my adopted country?
Degolar, you can say "what would Jesus legislate?" to great effect, I think. ;)
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